I wanted to call this, “Discussing Religion,” but then I knew some would disagree with the term, religion. As part of their training, Christians have been taught to deny that Christianity is a religion because it lumps the faith in with all other faiths. So, they call it a “faith.” I have managed to anger a few Christians over the last few years. All but disowned by a few of them. It angers them that I take exception to some of the Christian Doctrine. The question before us today is, “How do we grow and learn if we are unwilling to examine and discuss our beliefs even when some of the discourse goes against what we believe?” Many people put up barriers when someone espouses a difference in theology, a difference in beliefs about doctrine and the foundations of the faith. It is hard for people to look at the possibility that what they have believed all their lives or more recently come to believe may be wrong, as if the very existence of God and Jesus is at stake.
For those of you who came to believe later in life, those not raised in the church, consider this. Someone was preaching to you about Jesus, maybe once, maybe several times and you rejected it. You didn’t want to hear about it. At some point, however, you did. Because you did, you learned and have since growing in your faith. What I propose is no different. Listen, and if it rings somewhat true to you, go, and examine what I have said. Maybe we both will grow from it.
I have spoken to people who are afraid, they fear that if their belief in one doctrinal item, or a few, then the whole thing must be false. In example, the literal belief in Genesis chapters 1-3. Many say, if this is an analogy, then all the bible is false. I ask, how so? You see, I am not arguing that the first three chapters are an analogy but rather how would it make the rest of the bible false? Consider the story of George Washington’s father coming home to find the cherry tree chopped down. When asked, Little George replies, “I cannot tell a Lie, I did it.” The story never happened. It is a false story to show how moral Washington was, and to convey the message of never lying. The moral of the story is not false. Applying this to the first three chapters of Genesis, the moral of the story is not false if the chapters were an analogy. Which would then mean, the rest of the bible is not false either.
Why do we, Mankind, place such a burden or demand on God? Just suppose God thought it was better to tell the very unknowledgeable Hebrews about his power and greatest, that he created everything to include animals and people and used the creation story to convey it. Do you think it would have been better if God rendered a more scientific explanation of how he created life to people, some of whom, worshipped thunder and lightning? Again, not arguing the true nature of the creation story but our own desire, or need, to ensure it is true. There’s this wonderful word, “Faith.” Let’s examine what the bible says about faith.
Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see. I was once evangelizing a young Vietnamese girl. She asked about believing in a God you cannot see. I told her, “Well, suppose I said there was a million dollars on the table and all you had to do was reach out and take it?” She scoffed at that, “There’s no money on the table.” I went on saying that maybe it’s there and how would she feel if she didn’t reach out to see. I finally said, “Yes, you see that’s the way it is with God. You don’t see or touch him, but you know he is there. That’s called faith.” Confidence in what we hope for and assurance of what we do not see.
Let’s bring it back to the first three chapters of Genesis. Verse 3 of Hebrews Chapter 11 reads, “By faith we understand that the universe was formed by God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.” The idea here is, in a fantastical way, had the young girl reached out her arms, they would be filled with money. The invisible becomes visible. Reaching out to an unheard, unseen, untouchable God and being filled with His spirit. Faith. I don’t need to understand how God created the universe and all that is in it. I need to have the faith that he did. Paul speaks about the faith of gentiles, the fact that they did not need to see all the miracles to believe. The author of Hebrews speaks of the faith of the ancients and of Abel, Enoch, Noah, and Abraham. They operated on faith in the Lord.
By faith you should be able to discuss ideas and concepts about Church, liturgy, and doctrine that maybe slightly different or may challenge your thinking. You may ask, why? Consider this. For the first 80 years or so, the Apostles oversaw the church. They died off and Gentiles, Greco-Roman people steeped in Greek philosophy became the “Church Fathers,” and brought in their new ideas that were very different than the Apostles. Their reign lasted until till Martin Luther who also asked questions and challenged church, liturgy, and doctrine. Why has there been so much revolt and change if each one of these layers of this cake had it right and were motivated by the Holy spirit? With faith, you should be able to discuss the following topics.
Discussing theology
I wanted to call this, “Discussing Religion,” but then I knew some would disagree with the term, religion. As part of their training, Christians have been taught to deny that Christianity is a religion because it lumps the faith in with all other faiths. So, they call it a “faith.” I have managed to anger a few Christians over the last few years. All but disowned by a few of them. It angers them that I take exception to some of the Christian Doctrine. The question before us today is, “How do we grow and learn if we are unwilling to examine and discuss our beliefs even when some of the discourse goes against what we believe?” Many people put up barriers when someone espouses a difference in theology, a difference in beliefs about doctrine and the foundations of the faith. It is hard for people to look at the possibility that what they have believed all their lives or more recently come to believe may be wrong, as if the very existence of God and Jesus is at stake.
For those of you who came to believe later in life, those not raised in the church, consider this. Someone was preaching to you about Jesus, maybe once, maybe several times and you rejected it. You didn’t want to hear about it. At some point, however, you did. Because you did, you learned and have since growing in your faith. What I propose is no different. Listen, and if it rings somewhat true to you, go, and examine what I have said. Maybe we both will grow from it.
I have spoken to people who are afraid, they fear that if their belief in one doctrinal item, or a few, then the whole thing must be false. In example, the literal belief in Genesis chapters 1-3. Many say, if this is an analogy, then all the bible is false. I ask, how so? You see, I am not arguing that the first three chapters are an analogy but rather how would it make the rest of the bible false? Consider the story of George Washington’s father coming home to find the cherry tree chopped down. When asked, Little George replies, “I cannot tell a Lie, I did it.” The story never happened. It is a false story to show how moral Washington was, and to convey the message of never lying. The moral of the story is not false. Applying this to the first three chapters of Genesis, the moral of the story is not false if the chapters were an analogy. Which would then mean, the rest of the bible is not false either.
Why do we, Mankind, place such a burden or demand on God? Just suppose God thought it was better to tell the very unknowledgeable Hebrews about his power and greatest, that he created everything to include animals and people and used the creation story to convey it. Do you think it would have been better if God rendered a more scientific explanation of how he created life to people, some of whom, worshipped thunder and lightning? Again, not arguing the true nature of the creation story but our own desire, or need, to ensure it is true. There’s this wonderful word, “Faith.” Let’s examine what the bible says about faith.
Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see. I was once evangelizing a young Vietnamese girl. She asked about believing in a God you cannot see. I told her, “Well, suppose I said there was a million dollars on the table and all you had to do was reach out and take it?” She scoffed at that, “There’s no money on the table.” I went on saying that maybe it’s there and how would she feel if she didn’t reach out to see. I finally said, “Yes, you see that’s the way it is with God. You don’t see or touch him, but you know he is there. That’s called faith.” Confidence in what we hope for and assurance of what we do not see.
Let’s bring it back to the first three chapters of Genesis. Verse 3 of Hebrews Chapter 11 reads, “By faith we understand that the universe was formed by God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.” The idea here is, in a fantastical way, had the young girl reached out her arms, they would be filled with money. The invisible becomes visible. Reaching out to an unheard, unseen, untouchable God and being filled with His spirit. Faith. I don’t need to understand how God created the universe and all that is in it. I need to have the faith that he did. Paul speaks about the faith of gentiles, the fact that they did not need to see all the miracles to believe. The author of Hebrews speaks of the faith of the ancients and of Abel, Enoch, Noah, and Abraham. They operated on faith in the Lord.
By faith you should be able to discuss ideas and concepts about Church, liturgy, and doctrine that maybe slightly different or may challenge your thinking. You may ask, why? Consider this. For the first 80 years or so, the Apostles oversaw the church. They died off and Gentiles, Greco-Roman people steeped in Greek philosophy became the “Church Fathers,” and brought in their new ideas that were very different than the Apostles. Their reign lasted until till Martin Luther who also asked questions and challenged church, liturgy, and doctrine. Why has there been so much revolt and change if each one of these layers of this cake had it right and were motivated by the Holy spirit? With faith, you should be able to discuss the following topics.
Literal creation vs analogy based on the first three chapters.
Original sin
Is there a curse?
Passover, should there be a Christian Passover?
The Sabbath what does it mean to Christians?
Doctrine of the trinity
Do Jews believe they can earn salvation, or do we have that wrong?
Is church meant to be a building
If we are priests, why do we have pastors
What is worship
What should our meetings/church look like?
Communion/Eucharist what does it mean, what should we be doing, how should it be done, what do we know?
What is doctrine, where does our doctrine come from, define it.
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